Curse

Destinyy · Jun 04, 2007, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by TideSwayer

Dude, it's just a topic. It's not a campaign to get anything done. I was just seeing what others thought about it, and save for the few asinine comments about my guild, etc., I think there have been some good points brought up. Early-morning discussion, nothing more.

I'm going to have to agree with Evilsod about how much extra oomph Mystic Regen adds to a 55 build. The bar doesn't move, man.

I am guessing that is a resounding "NO"...

As for mystic regen, I get a full 10 pips with mending and HB, I never use mystic cos I mainly 55 with my necro...

And to the dude who said make it target other, You'd see dual running then... You go 55, and I will PS you with my SS/PS necro...

Roshi_ikkyu · Jun 04, 2007, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Yet another BOT INVASION hysteria thread
Just because you package it in a skill nerf-age wrapper, you can't hide the fact that you main point is about bots, and to a lesser extend nerfing the 55 farming build.

And all this coming from a farmer... Me and some of the other farmers were chatting and we're gonna have to ask for you to turn in your membership card!

SirJackassIII · Jun 04, 2007, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

That isn't why it won't get nerfed. It won't get nerfed because it's an integral skill in PvP (in ALL forms of PvP).

How would a change like the following:

For 5...19 seconds, target ally cannot lose more than 10% max Health due to damage from a single attack or Spell. When triggered, Protective Spirit can not prevent less than 20 damage.

Affect PvP?

Rephrasing the change, is that PS does the same as it does now. However, if your Max HP is below 200 (which would mean ~60% DP in PvP, meaning you and your team are basically screwed anway), PS will still not prevent less than 20 damage.
So, your HP is 150, PS caused you to take 15 Damage -> You now take 20. Likewise for 55 Monks, it goes from 5 to 20, making it a lot harder for bots to outheal that with the current skills, they'd basically die in 3 hits without healing.

Miral · Jun 04, 2007, 02:10 PM // 14:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

At least this way PvP wont be affected...yet also PvE will be destroyed...just what ANet loves to do!

bolded is too true

of course, they've already started that with dying spirits and chained souls in underworld areas....

also, keep in mind that theres more to PvE than 55 farming.

makosi · Jun 04, 2007, 03:04 PM // 15:04

If it was going to be done it would have been done ages ago. They nerfed Protective Bond for the very same reason and now Protective Bond is absolutely useless. People started using Prot Spirit to farm right after Prot Bond died and I guess Anet accepted defeat and that we were going to farm their game with it because there's only so much nerfing they can do before it makes PvP to restricted.

It's too late in the game's lifespan to do something about Prot Spirit when the alleged 'damage' is already done.

Sk8tborderx · Jun 04, 2007, 03:09 PM // 15:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

How would a change like the following:

For 5...19 seconds, target ally cannot lose more than 10% max Health due to damage from a single attack or Spell. When triggered, Protective Spirit can not prevent less than 20 damage.

Affect PvP?

Rephrasing the change, is that PS does the same as it does now. However, if your Max HP is below 200 (which would mean ~60% DP in PvP, meaning you and your team are basically screwed anway), PS will still not prevent less than 20 damage.
So, your HP is 150, PS caused you to take 15 Damage -> You now take 20. Likewise for 55 Monks, it goes from 5 to 20, making it a lot harder for bots to outheal that with the current skills, they'd basically die in 3 hits without healing.

Then everyone would use duo 600 smite, which is more effective anyway. Then people will complain about that.

If it happens, people will use a few of the prot bond builds that still work, and then people will ask for yet another nerf for that. Plain and simple, nerfing it would only annoy people, it would do nothing else because there are other options.

Moone · Jun 04, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

The best solution for that problem is, that they put a Hitcount for Prot Spirit in PvE and ONLY in PvE, not in PvP.
In general it would be way easier if some skills would be different in PvE and PvP, eventhough it wouldn t be that easy to make it.

drupal · Jun 04, 2007, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Maybe this is meant by "PvE Skills"?

Sk8tborderx · Jun 04, 2007, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moone

The best solution for that problem is, that they put a Hitcount for Prot Spirit in PvE and ONLY in PvE, not in PvP.
In general it would be way easier if some skills would be different in PvE and PvP, eventhough it wouldn t be that easy to make it.

If they did that with 1 skill, they need to do that with the rest. Definitely not a good option.

ArKaiN · Jun 04, 2007, 03:53 PM // 15:53

They'll never nerf PS. It's one of the pillars of the game, almost every prot build plays it. It'd be like removing apply poison or Blood of the Master. It'll just never happen.
EDIT:
This is how it'd go:
Nerf PS.
Everyone starts using VwK rit builds.
Nerf VwK
Everyone starts using Splinter weapon/Triple Chop
Nerf Splinter Weapon
.
.
.
Nerf ARMOR in general
Everyone quits GW

Abnaxus · Jun 04, 2007, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by TideSwayer

Destruction of Protective Spirit as a farming tool is inevitable

One of these balance updates is going to bring the destruction of Protective Spirit as a farming tool. Let's face it - it's at the center of most farming builds nowadays (especially hard mode builds). Bots abuse it. Hell, even the abuse of it by the casual farmer is bad for the economy as a whole.

Can you explain better why the "abuse of it by casual farmers" hurts the economy?
You can't say that now, after loot scaling, bots and casual farmers produce excess gold and cause inflation.
There's less and less cash in the game, and a bot or casual farmer is able to produce slightly more than the cash normally produced by a player who adventures with a team or with h/h.
Proof is that the prices of everything are as low as never I can remember (and I play since June 2004), we have superior vigors at 13k, ectos at 6k and so on. And also the prices of most rare skin weapons are 1/3-1/4 of what they were before loot scale.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TideSwayer

Sooner or later ANet is really going to see the light and realize that the tool to stopping the bots is to stop the actual tool of the bots.

Probably the best way to stop bots is to change the way of acquisition of armors and items.

Example: 15k or FoW armor.
Provided you have enough cash, you can get one of those playing 15-20 hours or less with a new character, just the time to reach Command Post, or ascend and reach ToA-Chantry-Zinju.
Then you enter FoW, do a couple of quest and it's done.
So buying money from bots is actually the fastest way to get some of those "high end" items, and that's the reason why bots exist.

There's should be a different system, that requires players to actually play the game, in order to have the possibility of getting high end items.
PvP is a good example, you can get a 15k armor playing and winning. You can't buy points from a bot to cheat the system.

Something like that should be done in PvE too. For instance, you can't access 15k armors before completing the campaign. Or you must have protector. By the time you get that title, normal play and adventuring will give you more than enough to buy the armor, with nearly no need of farming.

For FoW armors, there could be a similar system of gemstones, you should have quests to do in FoW/UW and at the end of the quest a chest spawns which contains ectos/shards.
And the forgemaster should be located deeper in the FoW, and not reachable nearly immediately.

This would destroy the reason for bots to exist, because players would be required to actually play the game, and not only to have some gold/materials in their storage.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jun 04, 2007, 04:28 PM // 16:28

They won't nerf PS, it'd kill the economy and PvP. I'm not going to bother explaining why/how, it should be obvious.

onerabbit · Jun 04, 2007, 05:17 PM // 17:17

then we all, and the bots will use earth tank farmers, then you will want to nerf them, and so on, until solo play is dead.

keep dreaming, if they was going to nerf PS they would have done it ages ago.

Levi Garett · Jun 04, 2007, 06:40 PM // 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gimme Money Plzkthx

They won't nerf PS, it'd kill the economy and PvP. I'm not going to bother explaining why/how, it should be obvious.

Last I checked Anet already destroyed the economy with HM + Loot Scaling.

Nerfing PS at this point would be plain silly as the market is already trashed.

Botters are better off now with loot scaling since gold is actually more valuable than before.

Botters are now just grouping to ensure they get 100% drops. Botters always adapt and even if they nerfed PS they would adapt to that. All you need is Life Barrier + Life Bond in a duo group to solo farm pretty much anything a 55 build can. With Loot Scaling it's actually the same rewards in drops having a two person group vs. solo farming so the botters are now adapting.

There's no nerfing low hp builds (via rune stacking) since people can just farm with 60% DP and achieve the same thing. It would just make farming more annoying.

Too many PvPers would rage if PS got nerfed. ANet is already walking on eggshells with their community so I don't see them doing anything this drastic before an expansion release and GW2 right around the corner.

Nerf PS then everybody will demand fairness...Then you can say goodbye to Stoneflesh Aura, Doylak Signet, Shadow Form, VwK....you get the idea. At that point there won't be much of a reason to play anymore.

Why does everybody attack the Monk class for nerfs anyways? Monks are still the most versitale farmers, but they are hardly the most efficient. If you want to talk about overpowered skills let's bring Shadow Form front and center. What about these earth magic invici-ele builds? You don't think these are overpowered? Why not scream nerf on these? Don't you think it's overpowered that an earth ele can reduce all damage to zero and they don't even need a low hp build?

We should be talking about un-nerfing instead of nerfing IMHO. Nerfing farming with the current state of the economy would be the worst possible move Anet could make for itself.

lennymon · Jun 04, 2007, 07:09 PM // 19:09

Spot on Levi.
Anyone else noticed the slew of E/A and occaisoinal N/A bots in Rilohn?
The point here is no PS in any of those skill bars. There are plenty of other builds and locations. PS will never get significantly nerfed without a mass exodus.

attackofthecold · Jun 04, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

How would a change like the following:

For 5...19 seconds, target ally cannot lose more than 10% max Health due to damage from a single attack or Spell. When triggered, Protective Spirit can not prevent less than 20 damage.

Stoneflesh Aura absorbs 20 damage so that wouldn't work.

And Anet would never nerf protective spirit. If they did they would loose thousands if not hundreds of thousands of users. And guess what, the bots would still be there =/ farming away with other builds. Even if they only get 1 item worth 25g a run its still a profit to them since most botters run lots of bots at once, and run them for a long. As for enchantment removal, Anet would have to add it to every part of the game to remove botters, and at that point enchantments would be completely useless.

gene terrodon · Jun 04, 2007, 07:43 PM // 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

Yet another BOT INVASION hysteria thread
Just because you package it in a skill nerf-age wrapper, you can't hide the fact that you main point is about bots, and to a lesser extend nerfing the 55 farming build.

And all this coming from a farmer... Me and some of the other farmers were chatting and we're gonna have to ask for you to turn in your membership card!

Who made you the "farming authority?" You can take your "membership card" and....

Nerf PS...take a big fat bat...preferably used by the HGH freak known as Barry Bonds and smash it into McCovey Cove.

Make it so it cannot be self cast.
Increase the recharge time.
Make it unable to be stacked.
Move it into divine favor.
Just do something.
55 farming is horribly boring and to easy to be setup in a bot program.

As for Abnaxus, think of loot scaling as the fed raising the interest rate to quell inflation.
Alot of the casual farmers these days farm for items, not gold.
The fact that there is less gold and more items, in combination, caused prices to drop.
Not one or the other.
It really is simple economics, supply is up, demand is low, funds are limited and rare items aren't rare anymore. Those factors have caused rock bottom pricing for everything, from "rare" skins and boss weapons, to materials and runes.

The notion that taking away the "tools" needed to do a deed is the simplest and most effective way to stop anyone or group of people.
So I would agree with taking away the tool that is the cornerstone to most of the solo farming builds.

NEOgeo · Jun 04, 2007, 08:07 PM // 20:07

there is nothing at all wrong with ps, or any other farming skills in the game right now, none are really overpowered and none will ruin the economy (as previously stated its ruined anwyay )

if u want a good economy + trading market back then we all just have to wait for the next chapter im afraid, and hope it sticks, as right now gw is completly broke and i find nothing but rage and frustration in this game now, i keep telling myself to quit the game at least until the next chapter is out, but its a habbit now and i keep logging on to try and find some new farmingplace + build to make some half descent cash and it just doesnt happen , so im now officially giving up

AOD_EaSyKiLL · Jun 04, 2007, 08:09 PM // 20:09

OMG 4 pages of flame bait, just close this topic already.

WarKaster · Jun 04, 2007, 08:39 PM // 20:39

don't know if has been stated or not but if they really wanted to end all the 55/ what ever builds all they had to do was change PS to Target other Ally. And BOOM you still have the everything except the ability to cast it on your self.